EP 34 | Starting a Business, Breakups & Travel With Emily Gough
In this episode, we speak to Emily Gough about:
Going back to school
Changing careers
Starting a business
Relationship breakdown
Travel
Pros and Cons of working remotely
Your money story and money beliefs
About Emily:
A handful of my favourite things include deadlifts, dark chocolate PB cups and patting every dog I meet.
I’ve held random jobs that include everything from working in a warehouse and bartending in nightclubs for years, to customer service at a well-known chain and managing large corporate sales accounts in the automotive industry.
I have BA in Criminal Justice & Psychology, plus certifications as a personal trainer, group fitness instructor and holistic nutritionist - and it all somehow led me to where I am today.
Whether it’s walking, hiking, lifting heavy weights or trying to learn to love the assault bike, I’m usually in motion.
I laugh a lot, even at inappropriate moments. I try to find the light in everything, and will also always encourage you to feel all the feels, otherwise they have a habit of coming back to bite us in the ass 10X over.
The hardest lesson I’ve learned is that life isn’t going to go according to plan. Ever. The faster you learn to let go of “the plan,” the more adaptable you will be and that will allow you to see and appreciate the most beautiful parts of the unexpected.
Learn more about Emily
Website - emilygoughcoaching.com
Podcast - Room to grow podcast
Instagram - instagram/emily
Resources mentioned and topics discussed in this episode
Rules on opening and closing joining bank account - moneysmart.com.au/jointbankaccounts
Relationships and money - moneysmart.com.au/relationships
Defacto laws in Australia - familylaw/defacto
Episode Sponsor
This episode is brought to you by More Time Financial a financial planning company that are on a mission to help young Australians make smarter decisions with money by providing real-life financial advice, coaching and financial education. Apply for a complimentary 30-minute consultation moretimefinancial.com.au/apply
Disclaimer
In preparing this podcast episode, the contributors have not taken into account any particular person's objectives, financial situation or needs. Before acting on this information, you should consider its relevance to your personal circumstances.
Shows Notes
Emily (00:00):
And I had all this knowledge and I was just, it felt like I couldn't pull any of it out of myself and I kept hitting a wall with it. And I couldn't understand why. And by this point, I'd launched two separate podcasts and people kept coming to me asking me how I'd done it. And they're like, I can't even watch one. Have you done two? And I just lit up when I would talk about it. And I really started to realize like this, this is the thing I always, if people are unsure about what to do or talk about, I'm like, what could you talk about for 60 minutes with zero prep and just be excited about, and not have to worry about, you know, making notes or anything. If people asked you questions, what could you just talk about? And that's sort of a really great starting point to figure out what you want to be doing.
Ross (00:45):
Welcome to more than money with your host Ross marae. This episode of more than money is brought to you. By more time financial, a financial planning company who are on a mission to help young Australians make smarter decisions with money by providing real-life financial advice, coaching and financial education.
Ross (01:07):
Welcome back to more than money as always. I'm your host Ross marae. And on today's episode, I have a guest interview for you. And my guest's name is Emily goth, who is a Canadian podcasting coach. I first met Emily in January 2020 while I was travelling through Bali. Emily came and gave a talk at the coworking space that I was working from for the month. And from the moment I met Emily, I knew I had to have her on the podcast. If for anyone that has been listening for a little while to this podcast, you would know that we, we cover off a number of topics. So travel business relationships, money, and Emily's story covers off almost all of those topics. So from her changing careers, multiple times, selling a house, building up her own location, independent coaching business, to allow her to travel and going through relationship ups and downs, that I'm sure a number of people could relate to. So I really hope you enjoy this episode and get as much value out of listening to it. As I did chatting with Emily, hope you enjoyed the show. And before we get started on today's episode, this is just a friendly reminder in order to keep our lawyers happy that in preparing this podcast myself and any contributors have not taken into account any particular person's objectives, financial situation or needs. So before acting on any of this information, you should consider its relevance to your personal circumstances. And if required seek the assistance of a licensed professional.
Emily (02:34):
So my name is Emily golf. I am 33. We've determined. I had to think about that. And I'm a podcasting and business coach. So I teach entrepreneurs to launch podcasts and to show their stories like from a place of impact and purpose. Yeah.
Ross (02:47):
Pretty excited to have you on the podcast. You are, I had to double-check this because I wasn't a hundred per cent sure, but you are my first international. So that won't be actually something to give them some context where you, yes, I'm from Canada.
Emily (03:00):
I'm from Canada. Not America. No, but I love American. So my best friends are Americans. So we are not hating on America. It's yes. I just happened to be Canadian. I get I say, sorry, a lot. And I say a lot, apparently, I'm told, so that's how you know,
Ross (03:16):
So first international guests and also first international podcast recording for this one as well. So if anyone listening, we are currently recording this in Bali, in Canguu. So I'm currently on a one-month working holiday in Bali and you have been here for
Emily (03:33):
Off and on for seven months. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Ross (03:37):
All right. Well, we'll get to that in a second, but as I said, pretty excited to have you on, I'd say to be here and it's so much fun. We cross paths randomly. So I'm currently working out of a coworking space. You came, gave a talk at the coworking space about podcasts in which obviously listened to it because I want to try and improve this podcast.
Emily (03:55):
Then we realized that we worked out together that morning, worked at
Ross (03:56):
The gym, and then you kind of had me on as a podcast and coaching live coaching session and your podcasts. So that was great. Get some insight into how you can improve things. I love doing that stuff. Obviously, listen to a few of your episodes, read up a little bit more about you. We spent some time together talking and realize that you're probably a perfect guest to have on the podcast because what you've gone through kind of ticks the boxes of, usually we have maybe someone one or two kinds of topics on, on the episode, whether it's travel or business or just money. And I think your story kind of encapsulates all the five kinds of areas that we cover on this podcast. So I'm really excited to delve a little bit deeper and find out a bit more about you and your story. So let's do it to maybe give a little bit more context for the listeners. What has been your, I guess, your career or resume to date?
Emily (04:53):
Ooh, that's eclectic. I have done everything from working for customer service at Walmart. Back in, when I was in high school, I did a very, very brief stint of modelling. I bartended for a long time. That was kind of probably like my biggest trunk in that sort of age range, like late teens, early twenties. I, I bartended nightclubs and stuff all over then. I, once I graduated university with a criminology degree, she makes no sense of anything else that I've done. I worked for, yeah, seriously. I worked in the automotive industry for 11 years, kind of fell into the job by accident. I only planned on staying there for a few months and then just stayed. And it, it kind of served me because I bought a house while I was there. And I was sort of hustling on the side. I was getting fitness certifications and teaching boot camps.
Emily (05:40):
And then I went back to school part-time to become a holistic nutritionist. And then I launched my online business again, while I was still working full-time in the holistic nutrition field. And I ended up quitting my job full-time job to go without full time. And then I just feeling all this resistance towards it. He, I couldn't even come up with like a webinar topic about nutrition. I had all this knowledge and I was just, it felt like I couldn't pull any of it out of myself. And I kept hitting a wall with it. And I couldn't understand why. And by this point, I'd launched two separate podcasts and people kept coming to me asking me how I'd done it for like, I can't even watch one. Have you done two? And I just lit up when I would talk about it. And I really started to realize like this, this is the thing I always, if people are unsure about what to do or talk about, I'm like, what could you talk about for 60 minutes with zero prep and just be excited about, and not have to worry about, you know, making notes or anything.
Emily (06:38):
If people ask you questions, what could you just talk about? And that's sort of a really great starting point to figure out what you want to be doing. So that was sort of the long twisty tale to how I ended up doing what I'm doing. Yeah.
Ross (06:49):
A few things to unpack there. It sounds very similar. And I assume it is the case in Australia and Canada, you go to school, you get a degree, you start working
Emily (07:01):
And you don't use that degree. So for our generation, I feel like that's pretty standard. Yeah. You get the degree, you don't use the degree. You mentioned
Ross (07:09):
Just a couple of things there around you didn't intend to stay in the automotive job, but you bought a house, which I assume forced you to stay in that job. Yeah,
Emily (07:20):
Yeah, for sure. Like there, there are bills to pay. And my partner at the time he was going back to school to do a trade. And so there were, I think a total of about nine months broken up over different semesters and stuff where I was the sole breadwinner for the household. And that was totally agreed upon. That was fine. But that was sort of one more factor where it was like, you know, this job is sort of the anchor point where I am then able to pay the bills. Not only just for my own half but to cover like my partner when he's back at school as well. And it was kind of like a joint thing there. Yeah.
Ross (07:57):
I find it really interesting because it happens quite a lot with clients and people that I know that they don't intend it all intention purposes. It's just a short term thing just to tide me over. And then all those other things life gets in the way. Yeah.
Emily (08:10):
I remember when I bought my house at my, my old boss is, is still a very good friend of mine, but he was making jokes. He's like, Oh, you're stuck here now. He's like, I feel better. You're never leaving. Yeah.
Ross (08:24):
What was that process of getting a house, staying in that job to then actually leaving? Did you, you said you went back and did some more study on the side.
Emily (08:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Was that your way out? Yeah, that was ultimately, I always knew that I, I was never going to stay in that job forever. It was just sort of about what do I want to do instead, because I would look at job postings and stuff like that. And honestly, none of them really appealed to me. I, I did apply to other jobs over the years that I thought might be a bill a little bit better, but nothing ever came of them. And at some point I kind of thought, you know, I think that's, that's trying to tell me something and I'm not really finding a job out there that feels like my dream job. So I need to just create it then and, and build. I was also coming at it from the point of lifestyle because when I first started working full time, I remember saying to my mom being in shock that I would be starting this job where I could only take two weeks off a year. And I'm like, I can't live like this for the rest of my life. And she's sort of
Ross (09:21):
So many words, like welcome to the railroad.
Emily (09:24):
It would have been a much nicer way of like more, a gentler way. But yeah, it, but that just never quite sat well with me because I thought, you know, I see these people out there it's possible to do something else. How can I put the steps in place to make that happen? So ultimately that was sort of my goal all along for years, but the courage to actually quit my job took a lot. Like it took years for me to even be comfortable
Ross (09:50):
There. Give me an example of timeframe wise.
Emily (09:52):
I've wasted about two to, two and a half years of me having my own business. Maybe two years, I think. Yeah. Even then it wasn't where I wanted it to be financially. But my partner at the time, again, he really encouraged me to do it. He'd been pushing me for a long time. He's like, you know, you're, you're clearly unhappy. It was a great job. I just, it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. And he said, you know, you're unhappy. Like, I, I want this to be better for you. Why don't you just quit? Like, we can make it work. We'll figure it out. We figured this out before, like when he was in school. So it just felt like it made sense. And I finally reached the point where I was like, okay, it's kind of this do or die moment. And I'll build the net to catch myself as I fall. Yeah. And that was
Ross (10:33):
In nutrition space in the nutrition space. So what was that originally? Like a nutrition.
Emily (10:40):
Yeah. Nutrition, coaching, like coaching one-on-one clients more of that kind of philosophy. And, and again, it was great. And I had like fantastic clients. It just, it wasn't, I was bored. I was like, I've worked so hard to create this thing. And I went back to school for it and everything it for like two years. And why what's wrong with me? Why is, does this still not feel right? Yeah. It just didn't feel like the thing.
Ross (11:02):
And was that a two year period of you working like nine to five and studying and building yes.
Emily (11:08):
Everything. Yeah. So building things up on the side, like going back to school, I went, I went to school every Friday night for two years until technically,
Ross (11:17):
Right.
Emily (11:20):
Like the particular that some of the teachers are like, man, we know the Friday night classes dedicated because you guys are giving up your Fridays for two years because they had other days of the week, but none of the other nights were going to work for my schedule. So I picked Fridays and I was like, I want this badly. Yeah.
Ross (11:37):
Obviously make mortgage repayments, being an adult through that whole period. Yeah.
Emily (11:41):
Yeah. And paying for school. Wasn't cheap either. I think the school was probably about six or $7,000.
Ross (11:46):
How does it, how does it work in Canada with, with the university? Do you have to pay it upfront or do you get it online? You, you can,
Emily (11:54):
You can get government loans, but because this one was it wasn't a university, it was like it was a post-secondary school, but I don't know exactly how you describe it.
Ross (12:04):
It's like a called a TAFE or like like private education.
Emily (12:08):
Yeah. It's basically like private education. Yeah. So that was a little different. I'd already gone the route of like second government loans and stuff. And I managed to pay them off within a year of us buying our house. I was determined that I was going to be debt-free basically by the time we bought our house. So I paid off my car. I paid off everything before we bought it. Didn't want to go into debt again for the schooling. So I just broke it down into monthly payments. They allowed me to do that and I put down the larger deposit and then paid monthly for the two years and stuff. Yeah.
Ross (12:36):
Maybe a little bit off-topic in the timeline, but I'm curious to know the university loan system, Canada, how does that work? Is it, you just get a loan and then you have to pay it back as soon as possible. Cause I know this is a big issue in America.
Emily (12:50):
Yes. It's set up similarly to America, as far as I know in terms of you can end up paying it off for years. For years and years, I have friends who are like went to law school. We're looking at, you know, a hundred thousand dollars easily, like six-figure education. And they've said they will easily be paying it off until they're 40 or 50. So it's similar to the US and in some ways, I think that the US is different in that sometimes their education is even more expensive, to begin with. Like if you're talking like Ivy league schools and stuff, so potentially a little bit different, I'm no expert on that by any means. But yeah, it I was just determined to make it happen as quickly as possible. I, I hate being in debt at all. And I was like, no, this has to go.
Ross (13:28):
So then keep on the timeline you had the nutrition business, weren't feeling super motivated. And then what was the kind of the trigger, I guess, to then jump into where you are now in the podcasting space?
Emily (13:42):
I started to kind of overlap it a little bit and I was like, okay, this is kind of weird. Like to be a nutritionist who offers podcasting coaching. I'm like, can I make this a thing? I don't know. Like I was very resistant to letting go of the nutrition stuff because I had spent so much time, energy and money on it. I'm like, can I really get an education in two separate things like criminology and nutrition and never like, it just seems ridiculous. And I don't regret either of them because both of them gave me, you know, a huge amount. I will never regret any form of education. Both of them gave me a huge amount of experience that I wouldn't have had otherwise, but, I was very resistant to it for that reason. It just felt like I would be wasting it if I went in a different direction.
Emily (14:26):
So I was kind of trying to do half in half out. And it wasn't going that well because I, I feel like you kind of has to fully invest in something. And I also felt like I wasn't established enough. And for long enough in the nutrition space to be adding on something completely different, like you can be an entrepreneur and be multi-passionate and have different things, but you kind of have to be the master of one first before you can start diving into other. So I felt like I hadn't reached that point yet. And people were still kind of trying to figure out what I was about with nutrition. And then I'm tossing in this bomb, like, and I also do this and people like, watch, you got criminal problems. I can help with that too. Yeah. I got that to you guys. I got that on my resume. Yeah. I basically never even really talk about having a criminology degree because people always give me really
Ross (15:10):
Like, like, was there any like career path for that? Like what, what is the career? Oh, I
Emily (15:15):
Totally thought I was going to be like, Horatio Caine from CSI like the sunglasses off and everything. Totally.
Emily (15:25):
I actually, like, I looked into things like working for the FBI or the RCMP, which is like the Canadian version of the FBI, basically those types of things. And it was possible like if I had really wanted it and I'd pursued it, I'm sure I could've made it happen. But by the time I graduated from school, there weren't a ton of full-time jobs. It was like just the recession was happening in 2008, 2009. And yeah, it's this other job in the automotive world that got offered to me and I had bills to pay. Oh yeah.
Ross (15:56):
Through this process of working full time, starting things on the side, going through this challenge of having been doing, do nutrition. Do I do podcasting? Was anyone helping you along with this?
Emily (16:06):
Yeah, I had coaches and, and like you were helping me and stuff and I would get opinions from loved ones and everything. And everyone was just sort of like, you know, you need to go the direction that you're feeling most pulled to. So a lot of people were kind of seeing that I was being pulled towards podcasting. I was the problem. And I think that that's often the way, right? Like we're our own worst enemies. I was the one putting my foot down going, no, I'm not willing to let go of the nutrition, even though I'm not particularly interested at this point, it just feels like I should be. And I don't want to release it for that reason
Ross (16:40):
For like personally or what other people would think.
Emily (16:44):
I think more, more personally. Okay. Yeah. I didn't mind like if other people, cause I figured other people wouldn't really care what I was doing for a living. Exactly. But for me, it felt like I was throwing something away. Yeah. And that I needed to prove to myself somehow that like I could, I could do this with nutrition and just force it through. And that wasn't the answer. I don't think that's ever the answer. You have to be in alignment with what you're doing.
Ross (17:08):
I think it's such an interesting point because I feel like a lot of people fall into that trap of, I should be.
Emily (17:13):
That's why a lot of us end up going for post-secondary degrees that we don't even necessarily want because we're, we're telling 17-year-olds. You have to know what you're doing with the rest of your life right now. I don't know many 17-year-olds that know what they're going to end up doing for the rest of their life.
Ross (17:26):
Like to know,
Emily (17:28):
And this is the thing like we're not of that generation anymore where you get into one job and you stay there for 50 years. That's simply not our generational path anymore. And the conversation has changed, but we're still expecting 17-year-olds to make a choice for the rest of their lives. And it's just not realistic. We need to change the conversation a little bit because I think a lot of kids ending up in school or ending up doing things that they don't want to do or there are kids who don't go back to school and they feel like failures because they didn't do post-secondary and I'm like, you're, you're good. Like you're fine. There are all kinds of other things that you can do without doing the post-secondary. So it's, it's kind of a double-edged sword.
Ross (18:06):
It's a little bit too modest. The debt that comes with a minus
Emily (18:08):
The debt. Exactly. Because this is the thing is that a lot of people will go into debt and then be in debt for 10, 15, 20, 30 years. And they don't even use it. Like at least I got the debt paid off quickly, but that could have been a very different conversation if I hadn't been fortunate enough to get a decent paying job and stuff like that, I could absolutely still be paying it off.
Ross (18:26):
Yeah. It really is an interesting kind of thing. And I guess like what you're doing now is in no way, shape or form a traditional path, traditional career path, being the idea of being a podcasting coach. Yeah. That's not an option. Yeah.
Emily (18:43):
I always love when I fly into places like Australia and it asks you for occupation on the immigration form. So I'll write a consultant because I don't know what else to put. And then those that's what kind of consultant I'm like business. Like I, cause they don't understand if I see podcasting as there are still some people who don't even know what podcasts are by Bali is so refreshing because I don't have to explain what I do. People like, what do you do? I us and coach, that's amazing to me having to launch into some explanation of like what's involved and what actually that means and all of those things. So it's kind of nice to be able to do that.
Ross (19:19):
I guess the interesting part for me is to know about what was the change of, I assume you had the nutrition coaching, everything that was all in Canada, you're based in Canada. You would,
Emily (19:31):
I was still like do like international clients like remotely, but yeah, yeah. Based in Canada. Yeah.
Ross (19:35):
Yeah. So then what's been the catalyst to move from Canada travel. And this is such a loaded question when people ask me that.
Emily (19:43):
So the former partner that I spoke of, he and I had been together for nine years a year ago. So December 2018 a Christmas Eve got a knock on the door, free, angry knock on the door. I make it sound like it was pleasant. It was not she was very angry. It was my partner's partner at the time, his previous girlfriend banging down our door to inform me that he had been having an affair off and on with her for our entire nine years together. So
Ross (20:12):
Just started if that wasn't clear, that was nine years, nine years.
Emily (20:15):
Nine years. Okay. Yes. Not quite the entire time, but basically off and on since day one, she had known about me the whole time, but I hadn't known about her. So she had been like stalking me online. There have been weird comments left. I found out were from fake accounts. She had created to engaging with me under fake accounts, driving by her house. Like all, all things that my, my partner at the time knew. Yeah. So I ended the relationship and then he and I worked together for about six months to do renovations on the house to get it ready for sale. And we it up for sale. And as soon as we had a buyer and I had signed all the paperwork I, I had known for months, I knew right away that I was going to end up travelling. And that we just had to get the sale in place before I could book an actual ticket. So once things were lined up, I took off to Bali before the house even closed because I'd signed all the paperwork. I did all the things I needed to do. And there were still two weeks to the closing date and I'm like, I'm out.
Emily (21:09):
It was just, it becomes such a toxic environment because of no. Yeah. And like a lot of the things that I had found out afterwards, like the secret house that he had 170 meters from our driveway that I would be walking by every day I had, I had to leave that there was so much dark energy there for me that I'll never live there again. We'll never live in that city again either. It's I went back Christmas. Yeah. I went back at Christmas and, and you know, the first time was always going to be the hardest time and it kind of brought up a lot of sort of trauma, but overall, it was a really positive visit. I feel better about going back and visiting now, but I will never live there again. Yeah. That's just, I accept. I do like family and friends who will stay there for short periods, but I'll never actually like to live there, live there again. Yeah.
Ross (21:55):
A few things to unpack from
Ross (22:04):
Not in related, we can get to the money side of it. Cause I'm, I'm interested to know about, about, about that obviously, but just probably from an interest find I've had it for quite a few friends go through breakups and affairs and split-ups and things like that. I'm always interested to know. And you mentioned that the partner knew his ex his partner.
Emily (22:27):
Yeah. I saw the other one side. Yeah.
Ross (22:29):
She knew about you. So was he dating her previously?
Emily (22:35):
Yeah, so they had dated for several years before he and I started dating and I, and I knew about that. I was like, I hadn't even met her several times at like company Christmas parties and stuff. What I want to make clear about this is that this is not a situation where everybody knew, except for me, like other than her everyone was shocked by this to the point where I actually had some moments of panic initially because some of the people close to me that I told actually didn't believe me. And I started having these moments of panic of, Oh my God. Like, he's going to get away with this. And people are going to think that I'm crazy and that I'm just buying and then I'm making it up. And eventually like relatively quickly that turned around and people started to figure out like, no, this is very real, but there was definitely some
Emily (23:25):
I'm almost honest to a fault, like a borderline blunt, you, you and I discussed that before our coaching call, I was kind of like, you know, I'm going to give you blunt answers because that's who I am. I don't really beat around the Bush. I don't, I don't try and make people feel one way when I actually feel a different way, all of those things. So to find out that, that I had essentially been living a lie was threw me a bit of an identity crisis because I didn't, I like this is not who I am. This is not how I identify. And yet I've apparently been living a lie and didn't even know it. So that was, that was a really distressing piece of the puzzle. Yeah.
Ross (24:00):
Cause the first thing that comes to mind is you're talking about not using your criminal degree. Was that, was there any of that?
Emily (24:07):
Did you [inaudible] you went to school for criminology and you missed all this. Yeah, yeah. Looking back. I did see some things that were sketchy. Yeah. This is the thing like hindsight is always 2020. There were definitely, even though everyone else was, was shocked. There were also a handful of things that only I was privy to as his partner that looking back, I'm like, yeah, those were red flags, but they were also things that he explained in a way that that could have been a reasonable explanation too. They say they say love is blind, right? Like we, we believe what we want to believe. And he did not behave like someone who's capable of doing all these other things.
Ross (24:50):
The thing I'm always fascinated about, like the fact that the other partner knew you didn't the secrecy that, and like the planning that would have to go into something like this. And again, you're obviously not alone in these things happening, unfortunately, but it's you talked about having been having two phones before to record two phones, like two emails that you're living in two houses.
Emily (25:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Two houses, like just, yeah.
Ross (25:15):
Obviously, I get to see people's bank records and transactions and things. And obviously, you can piece a few things together, but like the level of detail that you'd have to go in.
Emily (25:24):
Yeah. And like, he didn't, he didn't own it, but a close friend, a close family member did and he had access to it. Yeah. We walked by this house every day and we noticed a few years earlier when it had been purchased and we saw all the renovations being done and he, he was a handy guy and, and like I was a semi, I am semi handy too. So we've talked about some of the renovations that were being done and it turned out that he was the one doing the renovations, as that kind of stuff.
Ross (25:52):
I feel like getting my hands dirty for the weekend. I'm gonna go and help.
Emily (25:56):
Yeah. Yeah. And he would hide his vehicle in the garage so that I couldn't see it. I would literally walk by that house every single day. Like it, because it was so close. It was, it was the route I would take every single day to walk. Yeah. It's just, yeah. I like to make jokes. And this is true that the, you know, how your iPhone shows a little, most recently used emojis. One of most recently, one of my most used ones in 2019 is a little head exploding. That's that's true. Yeah.
Ross (26:29):
Understandable, understandable. Well, I'm sure we could spend the whole two hours talking about the in-depths of, of, of that scenario. But as I said, I'm curious to know about the financial side, obviously, nine years together is a long time. Yeah. I'm assuming you
Ross (26:44):
Would have had shared bank accounts. You purchased the house together. I assume your financial relationship would have been absolutely fully entwined.
Emily (26:52):
We always both kept our own separate accounts as well. And so you know, our, our pays every other week and whatever, we're both deposited into our separate accounts. And then we would deposit an equal 50 50 share into our joint account that was pre-agreed upon every other week. Yeah. Like that everything was, was then paid for out of that account. So I was always in charge of the finances. So all he had to do is transfer money and then we would discuss it. Obviously, I'd be looking at all these bills this month or whatever. I always made sure from the very beginning that we did accelerated bi-weekly payments for our mortgage and that we were also from day one paying more than we needed to. So we weren't just paying the minimum amount, even when each of us was in school at separate times, I made sure to maintain that.
Emily (27:36):
I think we had to lower it a little bit at one point when things got a little bit tight, but we still were paying more than we needed to. Yeah. I took care of all paying all the household bills and all of that stuff. But he, as I said before, I, I covered all the costs when he was in school for close to a year off and on. And then when I was in school, I still did my 50, my 50% share cause I was still working full time. But then he really encouraged me to quit my job. I really appreciated that kind of support because it meant a lot. And I would never have felt comfortable leaving that job if it hadn't been for having a partner that was very supportive about that. So when it came down to it, I, I made the leap. One of my biggest fears leftover from my parents' divorce as a teenager was an uneven division of finances because I never wanted to be dependent on a man financially. I never want to be dependent on anyone financially, but especially a man.
Ross (28:33):
And I think it's acceptable in this scenario. I'll give you that one and
Emily (28:41):
Was a big part of me feeling very nervous about taking the leap because I'm like, you know, if I don't make the money right away and I do have to depend on him, am I comfortable with that? Well, we'd already been together for nearly nine years. We were on the verge of getting married. We're starting to talking about having a family. I'm like, at what other point am I going to be able to trust a man enough to, to accept that help that is being offered to me. So I accepted that help. And then it was six months later, I found out that this was the case. He, they're kind of in a lot of emotional distress in those six months, those last six months, because he kept disappearing for long periods, like kind of almost bailed on like multiple trips that we were supposed to be doing.
Emily (29:21):
Like all these different things kept happening. And I, I couldn't understand why it was happening, but it was throwing me into such a tailspin that I was having trouble working. So not only was, I know, kind of corner in this position where I wasn't really bringing in as much money, but I also didn't feel creative enough to be able to do much and to be able to get done the work that I needed to get done because I felt so emotionally spent all the time. So that created some issues. And then when I found out about this, I, I think that there was maybe an aspect that potentially liked that I was dependent in some ways. But that did not stop me from ending the relationship. I won't starve. I have enough people around me that will take care of me. Like I will figure this out. So I'm like, no, we're done. We're done. And to his credit, I'm always very clear about this. He did actually follow through on all of his financial responsibilities. So he was very good about that in the six months afterwards, as we were selling the house and stuff. So I give credit for that. He followed through on his word. Yeah.
Ross (30:21):
I assume it would be similar, obviously not knowing the legal system in Canada, but in Australia, it's anytime you enter into a de facto relationship. So that's based on the law. Yeah. Based on obviously a range of factors, one being the length of time of the relationship that dependency on the stakes. And as soon as that D that dependency or that de facto relationship is established, then it's, you might as well be married because when it becomes to divorce or separation, everything gets divided
Emily (30:47):
Because I simply didn't want it to drag on. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want to involve myself in that. Like I would just rather that we can come to a reasonable agreement, we're both relatively happy and we just go our separate ways.
Ross (30:58):
So half settled, sold, obviously divided and then going through the whole process of splitting.
Emily (31:06):
And it was relatively uncomplicated at that point because, we had still had our joint account that whole time because we were paying for the renovation, materials and stuff out of the joint account. And yet we're both still depositing money and all of that stuff. And then we had arranged to have the money from the house split 50, 50 each into our separate accounts. And then when it came time to close down the account, I just made sure that we'd each gotten 50 50 of the remaining money. Yeah. That was it. And this is interesting for, and I don't know, the rules may be different than Australia, but I didn't know this. So for anyone who's listening, who might want to double-check this when I called the bank a couple of months beforehand because he said, you know, I'm going to be out of the country when it's time to close the account.
Emily (31:47):
Do you need written, written permission for me so that then he can close it so that both parties or whatever? And the bank informed me that no only one party is needed to shut down a joint account. So this is how apparent, and at least in Canada, this is how there ended up being situations where one spouse or partner can clean out an account and close it down without even telling the other one. And I was, I was actually shocked. And when I told my form, I was like, I'm never opening a jar. So that was pretty funny. But again, that goes to show the the trust that we were able to establish in certain areas to still make it work amicably. And again, that, that goes to his credit as well as to mine because yeah, a lot of people can't make that work. And I was, I feel very fortunate that we were here.
Ross (32:42):
Let's make it work. I might, for anyone listening, I might get some more information about opening and closing joint accounts and put some, put some notes in the, in the show. But that stressed me out a little bit. Yeah.
Emily (32:53):
Yeah. So then, yeah, ultimately when, when it was time to close the account, I made sure that he had the rest of his money. I had my money, there was zero left in the account and I called the bank from here in Bali. And I was like, okay, close the account. You're like, okay. I can, like, he did know that it was coming at that point, but I could have done that without ever informing him. Yeah. So that's something to be aware of. Yeah. Relationship expert. I don't want that title,
Ross (33:23):
I guess that was probably the long-winded answer of how it came to travel.
Emily (33:27):
Yes. Very long-winded good Lord. Yeah.
Ross (33:31):
Very, very interesting. At that point, you said before the house had settled, you already started travelling.
Emily (33:37):
Yeah, it was. So I got to Bali about two weeks before the new owners actually got the keys, so everything was settled. Like paperwork-wise, it was just a matter of just actually hitting our closing.
Ross (33:48):
So I guess, moving towards the travel component of your story, did you, have you travelled much previous to this?
Emily (33:57):
I had not as much as I had wanted to, but I backpacked around Europe by myself for a month back when I was like 20, 21, I think. Yeah, 21. And I go to Europe again for a few weeks with my former partner a few years ago. Yeah. I have definitely been to a few different places like down South North America, down South, not Australia. And so yeah, I'd been to a few places in Canada, US but always, I always knew that I had a lot more travelling that I wanted to do.
Ross (34:28):
And why, why Bali? What was the pull?
Emily (34:32):
You know what I ask other people this question sometimes too. And I just, I felt pulled, I don't know how else to explain it. I, I, I feel like people just look at me and they're like, Oh, it was like, eat, pray, love. Like whatever totally possible. But yeah, I don't know. I just felt pulled here. I had originally planned on coming here the last year anyway, with him. Sorry. Had you been here before? No, no. I've never been here before, but I had wanted to come here and we had talked about planning this trip to come here together. And then I was kind of like, well, I'm still going anyway. So then I just planned a totally different trip. I was going to stay in Bali for about six weeks and then do a little bit of Australia and then drive around New Zealand, then fly over to Hawaii, then California and go up the California coast to Vancouver.
Emily (35:19):
But I got here and I love it so much. I didn't actually want to leave because I developed a community here so quickly that I just felt very at home and very comfortable here. And the other part was, was that doing all of this travelling with like road trips and stuff, like long stretches of road trips around New Zealand and all of that is going to be exhausting. And I started to look at kind of the reality of it, and it was going to take a huge amount of energy to not only plan that, but you know, where's a good wifi spot. Where do I eat next? Where am I sleeping tonight? Like, it was just going to be a lot. And I want to all kinds of hikes and stuff where potentially where remote areas, where it's probably not the best idea to go alone.
Emily (35:55):
Like I don't have a problem with it, but it's, it's probably not ideal. So I just, and I didn't, I also didn't think I was going to be able to get any work done with, with extending energy and all these other things. I'm like, I don't know if I can actually even get any work done and that's not okay either. So Bali just seemed like the right place to just park me to get done what I need to get done. And like, the networking here is just ridiculous. I always tell people, networking in Bali is an introvert's dream because you don't even have to do anything. And you randomly ended up being connected with more people than you even know what to do without even having to expend the energy.
Ross (36:30):
I'm, I'm quite extroverted. So I found it amazing that it's incredible to see from introverts. Yeah.
Emily (36:35):
Oh, I feel it because internally I'm like an outgoing introvert. So I think they're more kind of like shy introverts that maybe would find a little bit more draining, but I find it so easy to connect with people here without having to fully put myself out there. Like it's
Ross (36:50):
Well, yeah. I find it because obviously everyone, not everyone, but obviously there's a lot of ex-pats here said, yeah, everyone's here for a purpose. Like there's
Emily (36:58):
And everyone's very social. Like, you know, it's I find back in Canada, you aren't nearly as likely to run into people. And then the first thing they'll say is, Hey, want to grab back breakfast? Hey, want to go for coffee? You know, we kind of have to work up to that. Yeah. Here, it's sort of expected, like you meet at the gym. You're like, Oh, are we going for breakfast? It's just, yeah, it's totally standard here.
Ross (37:19):
I'm always curious to know, because obviously for a lot of Australians, Bali tends to be like a second home because it's obviously quite close. It's relatively cheaper. I'm sure it's obviously cheaper for you guys. But I'm always interested in that. Like how did Canadians find out about this little Island?
Emily (37:34):
I feel like, honestly, I hate to say this well, other than like the eat, pray, love thing. Like literally I think that is part of it that kind of put Bali on the map. What was that like 15 years ago? But I think that a lot of it is Instagram too. Like I've actually done a podcast episode before on sustainability and how the Instagram travel situation is actually starting to wreck some areas because you'll see these influencers with hundreds of thousands of followers and the post, not just Bali or wherever they are, but like very specific locations on the Island or wherever it is that they are. And then those places end up being overrun by tourists and is kind of a problem. And yet here I am. Yeah. I'll listen, I won't call myself an influencer. No, no, I'm not. I'm not. I was influenced. Yes. Yeah. But yeah, you just see so many beautiful photos and it cost-effective for sure. Yeah. That definitely plays a role too. And I didn't even expect to develop the kind of community that I have here. Like I'll walk down the street, like, like you sent me that day and be like, that's so common. Like, how do people know me here? Like how did this happen? I didn't even try to do this.
Ross (38:40):
Yeah. So you've been, when was that? How long ago did you
Emily (38:45):
So July of 2019. So about what is that? Seven months, I guess. Yeah, but seven months ago. Yeah. And I haven't been here all the way through. Okay. Yeah. So I did go to Australia a couple of times spent like a weekend in Sydney, manly beachside. I went to Hawaii for a couple of weeks at one point. Yeah. So I've been in and out a little bit, but and then I went back to Canada for Christmas for three or four years.
Ross (39:06):
Yeah. Yeah. And how's it been? The working travel, what kind of lifestyle? Like, I'm not sure what you call it, whether it's the digital nomad or remote working, like what, what label do you,
Emily (39:18):
I feel like I never call myself a digital nomad.
Ross (39:20):
I feel like it's just like I know. Cause we have like the grey nomads in Australia, where are people that get care like retire, get caravans and travel around [inaudible] because I go right here. Oh that's Oh, that's so interesting. So they're like older. So they retire like actually retire, not retire when they retire. It's like retired 60, 65, get a caravan travel ranch. That's the one I hit digital nomad, always like automatically think to that. It's like, no, that's an older person. But then I obviously realized, yeah,
Emily (39:53):
Well, our friend Luke I'm sure you can like to reference it in the show notes if you really want to. He always makes jokes about hashtag digital nomad whackers.
Ross (40:03):
Yes.
Emily (40:03):
So he refuses to use that term. So that always makes me laugh. I just kind of referred to myself as like online business. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. I don't really refer to myself as a digital nomad because I also don't plan on being a nomad forever. I know I'm going to tire of it. It's I find that a lot of times lately I'm starting to hit the point of feeling like a constant need to ground myself somehow, because living out of a suitcase and flying all over the world in different time zones. And then even though, you know, it can be daytime here. I'm always thinking about what time it is in North America because that's where a lot of my people like, like customers and stuff are too, not just loved ones, but, but clients I'm constantly somewhere else in my head. Yeah. And for someone who has dealt with anxiety a lot in the past, that can be very unsettling. So I have to kind of find ways to really ground myself as much as possible because still trying to remain in the present while travelling in such a wildly different and often inconvenient time zone, it'd be quite difficult. Yeah,
Ross (41:02):
Definitely. Yeah. I think it's interesting to know or interesting to know that we see this thing on Instagram of like people working digital nomad or laptop lifestyle, and it's like overnight successes and all those, all those things that I find really interesting. And I had one of my clients actually joke when I said I was coming here. He's like, Oh, it's perfect. You're just going to be like, make a million dollars. Like the first day you arrive in Bali, you're going to be working on a laptop, obviously joking about it. But you see like the videos and Instagram ads, I worked in how to five now I work about top lifestyle and travel the world and work a laptop and make
Ross (41:34):
A million dollars in online sales.
Emily (41:35):
Well, this is the thing like, first of all, overnight success is complete. It's so. Yes. It can look, it can look this way, but you, you weren't seeing the years and hours and hours of hard work that has led to that point. Yeah.
Ross (41:49):
Well, this is the thing that I thought it'd be interesting to point on the fact that you said it was two years of working nine to five and obviously not doing the nutritious stuff now, but that's obviously led skills and stuff you would have got to getting clients coaching, all that kind of stuff can obviously translate into what you're doing now. So I think that's really interesting that it was a two year period of you working nine to five, studying, building up things before you took that leap. Totally. And then it's been since then, since then it's been a number of years.
Emily (42:17):
And even sometimes when people will just come across my podcast, they're like, you're almost 200 episodes deep, where do I even start? And I'm like, yeah, don't ever call me like an overnight success because like, I'm just barely starting to get a foothold in my field. Like literally just barely. And I've been doing this for several years at this point and I've been putting out all kinds of podcast episodes and all these things like there is no overnight success, no one is an overnight success. And we're all, we're also standing on the shoulders of giants. Like no one who is successful in whatever your definition of success is, does it alone? We're, we're all being helped by other people. You know, it was surrounded by either loved ones or just like some sort of support or some sort of network who has helped us to get where we are even just individual people in our lives who have helped to put us on the map, whatever map that is. And I never want anyone to be fooled thinking like, Oh yeah, they did that by themselves. No one does anything by themselves and cause an important,
Ross (43:16):
Well, what do you think the biggest benefits or biggest advantages that you like about the travel working remotely lifestyle at the moment?
Emily (43:25):
Well, as a Canadian, the climate is awfully nice here anyway, because yeah, there's some snow. And I said back home right now, and I'm not complaining that I'm here. I don't, I don't post about how sweaty we all are here because everyone back home would hate me. So I don't even talk about it. Yeah, there's, there's, you know, the basic things like climate and stuff like that, there are so beneficial getting to meet new people because I find whenever you're travelling, not just in like the networking Haven of Bali, but in general, whenever you're travelling, people are more likely to want to connect and to ask questions and to actually like, get to know you on a deeper level. Whereas when we're all kind of entrenched in, in our lives back home, I think we never, we never bother we're just so in a routine that we never bother, like going outside of that.
Emily (44:11):
And we have our set people and our set habits and we never deviate from it. So that's always a benefit, of travel for sure. And just getting to see new locations and being able to, you know, go, go jump in the pool as a mid-day work break, right? Like that's just, it's just fun that you get to do that. There's there are downsides there absolutely downsides like kind of feeling like you don't quite belong anywhere and always being on the move and adjusting to different time zones and not being surrounded by your own stuff as well. That can be very unsettling.
Ross (44:44):
I think he said the other day that you've got you're here with a backpack and you've got a few things in storage, but like, that's it, that's your possession. Yeah,
Emily (44:52):
Because that was basically when, when we sold our house, I gave him all of the furniture, everything, and I got rid of almost everything. I kept some kitchen stuff cause I like to cook and like clothes and that's essentially it like I got rid of almost everything else. And it just, it, it made the most sense because I didn't want to store a bunch of things. And I also just felt really strongly that I needed to create a whole new life completely separate from all of the stuff that I had before. And I've always been a bit of a minimalist anyway, but travelling also really teaches you very quickly, how little you require to be happy, like in terms of material possessions. Yeah,
Ross (45:31):
Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think, especially being a place here as well, like obviously third world country, you see the locals of how happy they are.
Emily (45:39):
Yeah. Especially the Bolognese, there's a most lovely people. Yeah. And they're so happy and they have next to nothing. They have looks with the shirt on their back practically. It's incredible. Yeah. We can all use that reminder, especially when more developed countries, I think
Ross (45:52):
A hundred percent. So I know it wrapping up when we got coming towards the end of this. So I try and ask constant money questions of old guests, always preempted to say that if you don't feel comfortable answering, you can, you can pass because I know money to an interesting topic. How have your beliefs or behaviours changed about money as you've got older or have they changed?
Emily (46:22):
I think they've definitely changed. I think I always saw money as something that was very difficult to hold onto. And the this is an ongoing thing. Like changing my money mindset is still very much an ongoing thing. But I think dipping into the entrepreneurial world, I've also learned a lot around, more like abundance around money as opposed to scarcity. And when you approach everything with a scarcity mindset and, and holding on to like every penny without ever letting any of it go, you have to, to some degree, give it to get it back. And that goes for a lot of things in life. That's like kindness and stuff too. Like sometimes you have to give to get back and you weren't even necessarily giving with the intention of getting back, but you, you have to, to release it a little bit because money is kind of an energetic thing and, and it does affect so many different aspects of our lives. I think that we're always going to be in a constant state of learning about it and also just really breaking down things that I, I kind of picked up along the way in childhood about money that I'm now just realizing those are stories that I've held onto. And I have to like undo those a little bit. Yeah. And we all have those things. We call it the money story.
Ross (47:31):
Everyone has their individual money story. That exactly influences again, like I'm sure from a psychological point of view like if you don't address it, come to the bottom of it, it's going to slowly come back to haunt you at some stage. Exactly. just around that, around like the entrepreneurial kind of lifestyle or mindset of abundance and scarcity, I'm always interested to know if someone that works in nine to five where it's, I can kind of see that scarcity, they have to come to work every single day. They only kind of see it that paycheck. So it's like they only see that set paycheck coming in. Whereas when you start working for yourself like you said, you might take on 10 clients in one week, hypothetically, and you've got all this money coming in that then the next week, it's obviously a lot less than I think it's always interesting because you start to, especially from, I've seen as well, that you are starting to realize how big these opportunities are to be online, what you do that you created yourself, obviously through lots of hard work, but it's like, you created that for yourself.
Ross (48:29):
Like those are those opportunities that are available that are out there. You start to,
Emily (48:33):
And like planting the seeds to like, like trusting that planting the seeds will end up paying you back at some point down the line. Yeah. And that's, that's a really big trust game because you can, you can be putting a lot out there and not seeing the financial return right away. And it's very difficult and it can be frustrating. I still go through moments of this. Like what the
Ross (48:53):
I put so much out, when is it going to pay off
Emily (48:55):
And between that, and then I think the other big difference is entrepreneurs are investing in themselves. I, I think that a lot of, a lot of people who just focus on more, the the kind of nine to five, like corporate hustle mindset, they aren't nearly as willing to part with money that involves like fully investing in themselves and paying, you know, thousands of dollars for coaching and stuff like that. And that that's been a really big adjustment for me because I'm like, I would rather at this stage in the game, rather than put down, you know, however much money for another university degree, I would rather invest fully like in, in me and my own abilities and trust. I don't need a certain number of letters after my name to be successful. So what, what can I do to invest in myself that doesn't have to involve the letters up to the name? And sometimes that means putting down thousands of dollars, but I end up getting so much out of it from coaching and coaches that I think it's invaluable for me personally.
Ross (49:56):
What do you know about money and finances now that you'd wish you'd been told early on in life?
Emily (50:06):
I think just things like this seems so basic, but definitely saving more and saving more earlier on I've always been very good. I was always very good at paying off debt, but I wasn't necessarily as good at then paying off the debt and then actually saving more. Right. So if I had a clear, specific goal, like buying a house or something like that, I saved for that like crazy. But then I think it's hard sometimes as, as young people to think about retirement, because it seems like such an abstract concept that it's like, well, what am I, what am I saving for? You know, you almost need to dangle the carrot in front of yourself, like, Oh, that trip to Bali. And then you, you can save for that. And that seems much easier, but when it's something like saving for retirement, it seems so far away in a lot of ways that it can be more difficult to save for. So I feel like that's something that I've, I've definitely like shifted on. Yeah. Saving money is good. Yes. I think money is good. And not necessarily just for like the one very specific material object or whatever.
Ross (51:08):
Yeah. It's been really interesting to see like obviously that's what I do with clients is trying to help them to, to build up savings. But I think it's the opportunities that you get by having money in the bank that allows you to maybe quit your job at some stage, maybe allows you to start that business or do those things without the money in the bank, you can do it like you just can't
Emily (51:30):
And money represents freedom to me in so many ways, the freedom to travel freedom of your time and energy, freedom to take a day off work if you need to. When hits the fan, that was something else that I learned a year ago was I didn't have any systems in place in my business. My entire life had fallen apart and burned to the ground. And I basically couldn't even work for like two months because I was a disaster. I couldn't get anything done. I'm like, I can't have a life that like have a business where it is so dependent on me that if hits the fan, I can't function that the entire business falls apart. So that's been something too is like making that adjustment and really figuring out how to make that work too. Yeah. Cause it's absolute freedom. Money equals freedom in virtually every way.
Ross (52:12):
Well, you've just answered the next question. Oh
Emily (52:16):
Yeah. Money. Money means freedom. Yeah. Money doesn't equal happiness, but money equals freedom and that freedom can bring you at least a degree of happiness,
Ross (52:26):
Best money advice you've ever received.
Emily (52:30):
I, I think honestly investing in yourself. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm like repeating answers here, but there've been some times where I've been on the fence about certain coaching or coaches and there have been people close to me that are like, you know, invest in yourself, like trust yourself enough to know that you will end up making it back eventually and just take the leap. Yeah.
Ross (52:51):
Final question tomorrow you wake up, you want a million dollars. What's the first thing you'd do. And what's the first thing you buy?
Emily (52:58):
Ooh. I think the first thing I would do is retire my mom and then I would probably dump a lot of it into savings. That's probably a boring answer, but like well, okay. Do I have to buy something? If I'm going to buy something, there is a BMW racing course that I really want to do. It's like a weekend, like driving experience in Germany. I wanted to do it for years. Maybe, maybe it's the, the automotive industry. It's finally making it, it's viewed at the surface. Maybe it's that. I don't know. It's something that I really want to do in the next year or two. And the one thing is, I think I have to learn how to drive, stick first, drop the scooter here.
Emily (53:49):
So someone has to teach me to drive stick and then give you, you know, all the money and then I'll go do the driving experience too. Yeah. Well, thanks very much for being on the podcast. Thank you so much. Final words of wisdom for listeners. I think just to trust, trust your intuition. There've been a lot of times in the last, like five, six years in particular where my intuition was telling me certain things and I was very resistant to it, not just about the relationship stuff, but about business too, like being so resistant to doing a podcast and coaching. When I felt like I should, I should be doing nutrition, coaching and stuff like that. Just don't follow the sheds and instead follow what your body is actually telling you and talking to you about.
Ross (54:00):
Yeah. What's the best place for people to find out more about you?
Emily (54:05):
So the room to grow a podcast. I can go check that out. I can come to find you for us over there as well. And like off coaching.com room to grow podcast.com. And I do have a course called podcasting for the impact which is much more about podcasting for impact as opposed to focusing on all the numbers and stuff like that. Because when you focus on something like impact, the numbers will follow well. Thanks very much.
